E24: Kenton Cool
In this episode, Ben speaks with one of the most formidable mountaineers of his generation, Kenton Cool, who has scaled Mount Everest an astonishing 18 times.
Kenton discusses how a traumatic brain injury led to acquired neurodivergence, the impact of altitude on cognitive function, and what drives him to conquer the world's highest peak.
Transcript
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:20:12
Kenton Cool
Okay, I'm going to go climbing today. I'm going to put myself in a really dangerous situation. I'm going to push the envelope. So what I'm capable of, both physically and mentally, you're going to control the rush of adrenaline. You've got to control the fear. You've got to control everything. When she's screaming at you not to do it, and actively go out and seek to do it every.
00:00:20:12 - 00:00:34:07
Kenton Cool
She's unique, whether you like it or not, for all its good and bad, for all its good and bad. It's amazing how hard you fight when you think you are about to lose something.
00:00:34:16 - 00:00:56:04
00:00:57:01 - 00:01:26:06
Speaker 1
Our next guest has climbed Mount Everest 18 times. Yes, 18 times. Kenton cool holds the world record for the most climbs by a non Sherpa, and the journey has certainly had its ups and downs. From facing the possibility of never walking again to traumatic brain injuries and most recently, a transient ischemic attack. We get inside Kansans head to learn about resilience, mental strength and the toll it takes.
00:01:26:06 - 00:01:33:00
Speaker 1
Conquering the world's highest mountain. Let's get into it. Let's hear how great minds think differently.
00:01:39:03 - 00:02:03:07
Ben Branson
Kenton, thanks so much for coming on the hidden 20%. How's your brain today? My brain? Yeah. it's a bit slow today. Okay. what is slow mean? I don't know. I was thinking about this on on, on the way in, I was listening to the podcast, and I kept losing track, Papa, because I was driving to the station, and so trying to concentrate on other things.
00:02:03:07 - 00:02:21:07
Kenton Cool
But I kept losing my track on the podcast, so I kept having to take about 15 30s, which is a little bit unusual. So I came to the conclusion actually this morning that my brain was slow today. And that's what I mean by that. I just I wasn't keeping up with the dialog on the podcast. I was listening.
00:02:21:08 - 00:02:41:10
Kenton Cool
And does that happen often or not? From time to time? Yeah, I quite often I don't know, I don't know if listeners or the audience do this. Maybe they're doing this on this very podcast, but I often have to rewind podcasts because my train of thought just I don't keep up with it. Okay. because you think about something else or.
00:02:41:12 - 00:03:14:07
Kenton Cool
Yeah, I think I just lose myself. I don't know, I just go somewhere, which you probably really dangerous if you drive it, so I so I tell you my climbing story. Kenton. The social climbing. No, no, it's actual climbing. And it pales into absolute insignificance compared to, you know, all the amazing things you've done. But about 12 years ago, I decided to climb Ben Nevis, which we're talking like less than 2000m, right?
00:03:14:09 - 00:03:41:00
Kenton Cool
Yeah, but it's still the highest point in the UK. Okay. For those overseas, granted audience who've never heard of Ben Nevis, but I decided to climb it barefoot. Interesting. And I did actually do some sort of conditioning of my feet leading up to it. And my original plan was doing it for charity, but my original plan was I was going to do it two days in a row, which in hindsight was a really silly idea.
00:03:41:06 - 00:04:02:18
Kenton Cool
But I did climb Ben Nevis barefoot and go back down, and then my feet swelled up so much. Is this going up the tourist path? Yes. So it's probably Shaggy. Yeah. So we explain the barefoot bit. My brother set up Charity when he left school when he was 18. He basically finished school and went and started working in an orphanage in Peru.
00:04:02:20 - 00:04:24:24
Kenton Cool
Oh wow. He's only meant to be there a month. And he came back seven months later, and he'd been living with the indigenous communities up in the Andes. The catch with communities. And he'd learned the children there were walking four hours to school and four hours back, a bit like that in the Himalayas often I can imagine. And a lot of that was barefoot.
00:04:25:01 - 00:04:45:17
Kenton Cool
And, you know, I see young children four hours to school, four hours back with an education system that wasn't particularly relevant to their lives. And he, you know, Fred, my my youngest brother, he did an amazing job. He built all these halfway houses so the kids could kind of come and learn proper education during the week. And then they got to go home.
00:04:45:19 - 00:05:19:04
Kenton Cool
But weekends or on Thursdays. And so I wanted to raise money for, for the charity. And I thought, well, I'm going to yeah, I'm going to do you can go barefoot or I'm going to go back 40. Yeah. I mean, I tractor when was it 2017, you know. So I tracked into PwC, a Java company that was cost down his pyramid in, Papua New Guinea, which is one of seven summits, just one of the highest points on the continent, and 6 or 7 day trek through the jungle to get to the mountain over towards the end, over what's known as limestone.
00:05:19:04 - 00:05:40:23
Kenton Cool
Cost so very sharp. So I don't know. Have you been to Yorkshire? That's where we get limestone castles and very sharp rock. with what looked like crevices or crevasses in between. It can be super, super sharp. And we walked with the local tribe and they were all barefoot. And they walked through the jungle. They walked over the limestone cast.
00:05:40:23 - 00:06:04:13
Kenton Cool
They walked over these. You know, you mentioned the word jagged. No, I rendus limestone, like stone paths. And so some of the children were like 7 or 8, and they all coveted because we did it in wellies, 78km in wellies. And they all wanted any boots that was in one piece of equipment that we had that they wanted.
00:06:04:13 - 00:06:24:08
Kenton Cool
They weren't interested in the phones, the cameras, the satellite communication equipment. It was the boots. Yeah, I can credible I can imagine it because it's. Yeah, it's not very fun on your feet. no, I can't do that, though, I just but that gave me, I guess I was thinking about it over the weekend, you know, in preparation for meeting you.
00:06:24:08 - 00:06:45:08
Kenton Cool
And I was just sort of thinking, God, the the kind of, you know, I that was that was quite tough mentally to do, I mean, as physically tough on my feet. But for a short amount of time, I had to go beyond just the, you know, the pain and, and kind of and do that. And, and so it just started me thinking like how, yeah.
00:06:45:10 - 00:07:06:24
Kenton Cool
How do you prepare your brain? How how prepared are you mentally for climbing Everest? How do you prepare your brain for something like that? I think Everest is perhaps not the best example. Yeah, I mean, it's the highest mountain in the world. It's in the popular media at the moment because it is. It was just coming to the end of every season.
00:07:07:01 - 00:07:27:17
Kenton Cool
So you can pick up pretty much any paper. And there is something about Everest right now, for better or for worse. But some of the more interesting things in terms of how you prepare yourself is perhaps some of the climbing, which myself or my cohort or climbers do, which perhaps isn't commercial. It's I go to wherever. It's in a commercial sense.
00:07:27:17 - 00:08:05:08
Kenton Cool
I take clients paying clients to the mountain. So we have a big safety net when we climb for ourselves. Often that safety net is removed. And that's the really interesting thing because you are deliberately putting yourself in a position, I think the terminology or the term is deep play, where you partake in an activity where the risk far outweighs any form of reward, and sometimes you get yourself into these situations and a mistake is going to be at best, extremely painful.
00:08:05:08 - 00:08:22:20
Kenton Cool
You're going to fall off, you're going to go clattering down the cliff or fall off the frozen waterfall or whatever it is that you're climbing. You know, I bet you're gonna hurt yourself. And at worst, you, you, you're going to end up in hospital will be dead. Yeah. So to try to get your head round volunteering, you know, the conscious decision.
00:08:22:20 - 00:08:43:23
Kenton Cool
Okay, I'm going to go climbing today. I'm going to put myself in a really dangerous situation. I'm going to push the envelope. So what I'm capable of, both physically and mentally. You're going to control the rush of adrenaline. You've got to control the fear. You've got to control everything which is screaming at you not to do it, and actively go out and seek to do it.
00:08:44:00 - 00:09:03:17
Kenton Cool
I mean, it's insane. Yeah. I mean, deciding that it makes very little sense. And a bigger question is, you know, fingers crossed. If the weather perks up, I'm going rock climbing tomorrow with my buddy Dave. and I will throw myself into a situation where if we screw up, we're going to hurt selves.
00:09:03:17 - 00:09:04:22
Kenton Cool
I'm not being paid for that.
00:09:04:22 - 00:09:32:15
Kenton Cool
In fact, I'm paying you because there's fuel to get there. And as a day out of my my work schedule and and everything else, I mean, where's the sense in that? And I think I think it's twofold. One, yes, there is the that flush of endorphins of putting yourself in a, in a risky situation whereby, you know, you walk away from it, you know, the adrenaline is coursing through your veins, you know, the whole thrill side of things.
00:09:32:17 - 00:10:05:10
Kenton Cool
But then there is and I know this from experience because I nearly lost it. There is the community as well, which I think is really important. And arguably it gets more and more important the older I get, because community, I think in today's society is is being stripped away through something where it's a different community, isn't it? You know, the social media, the, you know, the Instagram and TikTok, whatever the platform may be, that that's where we find community.
00:10:05:10 - 00:10:39:01
Kenton Cool
But personally, I find it very hollow community. But but climbing has given me this, this community for the last. I mean, I'll be climbing since I was 17, 18 and some of that community, some of those people within that community I haven't seen for years, but I know I can go knock on the door of a friend in Sheffield or somebody in Seattle or Kathmandu and walk into the house and say, I need help, or this has happened or I've not seen you for ages, let's go for a beer or let's go for dinner, or let's go climbing or whatever it is that that community is so tight amongst that community.
00:10:39:01 - 00:11:17:21
Kenton Cool
What similarities are there in terms of mindset or outlook? Well, I mean, I think traditionally climbers there has been an anarchistic thread to to climbing. I think Steve Jobs summed up climbing really well when he, when he was talking about the outlier, the nonconformist, you know, in that very famous speech that he had that that could be written about climbers, mountaineers, and I think any fringe sport, skateboarding, you know, BMX in when it was, was niche, you know, wingsuit flying, you know, all the all the people that operate in those communities probably do think they're outliers.
00:11:17:21 - 00:11:40:12
Kenton Cool
They're slightly anarchistic. They they stretch the boundaries of of rules and regulations and laws and they live by their own set of moral codes. And that binds you very, very tightly. And people come and go in those communities, and they might go and get a proper job and conform for a while. But they've always got that thread there.
00:11:40:12 - 00:12:01:12
Kenton Cool
They're always they're always willing to, to push the boundary, to push back against what is considered to be a social norm. Were you nonconformist as a child growing up? Don't really. I was quite the opposite. I mean, I'm super conservative. I think, I mean, I grew up in the outskirts of London. We didn't quite conform as a family.
00:12:01:12 - 00:12:27:01
Kenton Cool
My father was a photographer but unemployed for some of my childhood. We lived in a corner of a farm field, you know, inside the M25. But we had no mains drainage, we had no central heating. We had a wood burning stove to heat the water. So none of that was conformist. But we lived in commuter belt, so all my friends and colleagues had the Mercedes or the, you know, whatever that had.
00:12:27:07 - 00:12:45:24
Kenton Cool
I don't know what the dads did, but everybody had money. We didn't. But but that didn't matter. And I think community. Did. You come up massively okay. Oh my God no I was, I was, I was, I was so well and like my daughter, God forbid I'd ever be given a detention. I mean, my world would crumble around me.
00:12:45:24 - 00:13:21:13
Kenton Cool
I used to be so good at adhering to rules. Then I went to university, saw something completely different. And then, yeah, that's when I started bending rules, I suppose. I mean, I'm not I'm not a law breaker as such, but I was certainly pushed the boundaries of what I considered to be acceptable. I mean, why should you conform to a and then let's use the term rule rather than law, a rule laid down by somebody else that you perhaps don't really admire or hold in any sort of esteem.
00:13:21:15 - 00:13:43:09
Kenton Cool
Why? She said. They say, well, this is what you can do. This is what you can't do. I think climbers have always to push that. I found some thread about cults over the weekend, as I was reading about cults, and about how they set their own set of rules down, and then live by those set of rules which is perfectly acceptable to those who, within that cohort.
00:13:43:12 - 00:14:07:14
Kenton Cool
I'm not saying that cults are a good thing, but yeah, we put that term cults, but we, we've yeah. And we've we've decided that the word cult is bad. Yeah. It is climbing a court. Is skateboarding a cult? Well, it's kind of, you know, he's wearing neon green socks, you know. Is that a cult? When it was when I was growing up, we all had neon neon socks, and that was what we all did.
00:14:07:16 - 00:14:43:22
Kenton Cool
I mean, is that a cult and cult following that term in the world of, like, brands and companies? Well, it's people, it's good. Good. Yeah, that's a good thing. That's an inspiration. Is weird, isn't it? Yeah. It's strange how we. And I think that's one of the issues with society. We're so quick to try to put people in a box that we understand or perhaps don't understand, but by putting that individual or individuals into the box, it helps us have a better comprehension of, well, they're good or they're bad or or they're fringe.
00:14:43:24 - 00:15:14:05
Kenton Cool
And I think society has always, to a certain extent done that. And how do you how do you see that in terms of how people think differently and people's different brains? Well, it doesn't allow free thought in many ways. Those who are putting down the moral codes for society are saying, well, that's right or that's wrong. So I'm not religious, but, you know, you can look at the Ten Commandments and yeah, okay, they are moral codes which the majority of us would lead, like to think we lead our life by now.
00:15:14:05 - 00:15:30:08
Kenton Cool
It's not exactly religious codes or that they're moral codes. And I think most of us would adhere to them, but not all of us would adhere to them. But if you don't adhere to them, then you're ostracized and you think, well, okay, well, you know, we're not going to we're not going to socialize with Ben because he knew.
00:15:30:10 - 00:15:47:22
Kenton Cool
Yeah, I mean, he didn't follow God, you know, or whatever it is, you know, whatever your God is, God us. All right. This is a tangent. I told you. What girlfriend? Yeah. Remember Dave Allen? Yes. Comedian. Yes. He always used to he again, I was watching a Dave Allen Scott sketch only this weekend. It used to be my favorite comedian.
00:15:48:02 - 00:16:13:11
Kenton Cool
And he always used to finish his sketches with. And may your God be with you, your God, your interpretation, your interpretation of God in whatever manifestation that that is. So the the Sherpas goddess is Everest, correct? Well, yes. I mean Mother goddess of the Earth saga, Martha or Chewbacca, Martha, depending whether you are Tibetan or Nepalese, which means blue sky.
00:16:13:12 - 00:16:34:01
Kenton Cool
The head in blue sky. I think I read, yeah, there's a number of interpretations. I mean, I'm not religious, but but if I were Buddhism, I mean, God, you got to embrace Buddhism. I mean, some of their stories are fantastic. When you when you go back far enough. So so you got Mount Everest and in 1856, that's when man decided that it was the highest mountain on the planet.
00:16:34:01 - 00:16:53:16
Kenton Cool
It was. It was Andrew War, the then surveyor general of the Great Indian Genomic Survey. They had measured Everest and it worked out. It was, the highest mountain in about 1856. I mean, not that long ago, is it? But the term tuma longer, the Tibetan term for Everest goes back generations and generations to generations. Mother goddess of the earth.
00:16:53:19 - 00:17:06:10
Kenton Cool
They knew how all that time ago that there was something special about it. Anyway. So this lama flies over Everest. This is folklore. Obviously, this lama flies over Everest. And,
00:17:06:10 - 00:17:18:14
Kenton Cool
so out of his or her, I mean, they could shoot some beams and what the local people did, they used to hang their washing on these, some sunbeams to dry their washing out it.
00:17:18:18 - 00:17:45:02
Kenton Cool
How cool is that? How spiritual a place does Everest feel to you? Oh, that's a really good question, isn't it? I mean, it's hard to go to Everest and do the track and be surrounded by your Sherpa friends and not be touched by spirituality. I use the term spirituality rather than religion. First of all, my shepherd friends, Dorjee in particular, I mean, he's got a big shrine, you know, in his house.
00:17:45:02 - 00:18:06:04
Kenton Cool
He spends all summer during the monsoon learning scripture. he's fantastic. And so. So you do want to trek with mythology, and you visit in the various monasteries and, and and you're there at Puja. I mean, I've got the string around my neck. It's bless puja string to keep you safe. I mean, why am I wearing it if I'm not religious?
00:18:06:06 - 00:18:35:20
Kenton Cool
So it's impossible not to be touched by spirituality when you're in Nepal and trekking to base camp, when you get to base camp, unfortunately, commercialism and the industry that is commercially climbing Everest has taken over and to be honest, any form of connection is kind of squashed from me, at least until I'm on the mountain. And then when you on the mountain, there is this connection again, especially on Summit Day.
00:18:35:20 - 00:18:57:20
Kenton Cool
I mean, I say, I mean, I'm not religious, but I say a little prayer when leaving the top camp. And, I mean, I've got bits of grain in my pocket of my jacket, blessed by, by the lama, which I carry with me. Most fatalities happen on the way down, correct? Yeah. Yeah. To generally. And so there's less mountaineering per se.
00:18:57:23 - 00:19:21:15
Kenton Cool
Okay. And the reasons you know, you get to the top and you, you know, perhaps mentally and physically check out. So you're not perhaps concentrating. But, but a more fundamental reason is, you know, let's say you, let's go back to Ben Nevis. Are you talking about Ben Nevis? And I know on a tourist park and it's quite well constructed, but if you stub your toe in the way on the way up, you would fall into the slope.
00:19:21:17 - 00:19:43:20
Kenton Cool
Yes. Now, think of you on the way down and you tripped over something. You fall out from the slope. So all of a sudden the the intensity to to hurt yourself by falling out from the slope is on a ten four plus. You're tired, you know, maybe it's going dark if you're ab sailing ice or hanging on to the rope.
00:19:43:21 - 00:20:02:13
Kenton Cool
If there's anything wrong in the system and something fails, you're dead because you're hanging on the rope. And that really only happens on the way down. Was it 1986 when you had your big fall? It was 96, yeah. Which happened to coincide with the bigger average disaster that we all read about. 96. It's that 96 as well. That's 96 as well.
00:20:02:13 - 00:20:36:07
Kenton Cool
That was eight fatalities. 11, I think. Okay. yeah. The whole into thin air. Yes. Tell me about 1996. And for me, I was in North Wales and it was actually a week before or about a week before. Yeah, it was a week before I was meant to be going to Pakistan on a big expedition. And it's a great example of letting others dictate what you think you should be doing, because really, I just wanted to go to the cafe and drink tea.
00:20:36:09 - 00:20:59:03
Kenton Cool
but my friends were like, no, we're off into the slate quarries now. The disused slate course above Llanberis. And, so I rather reluctantly go there. I did a warm up climb with my then girlfriend, Carolyn. and I thought, okay, well, Richard's jumped on right away. So if I do the one next to a called major head stress, that would it was called major head stress.
00:20:59:05 - 00:21:22:05
Kenton Cool
And I got about 15ft off of it and it was quite high E5, and it broke a hold. So, like, I slates, quite friable. And I break a hold on fall off. I've got no gear and I hit the floor. Not from that high, but the floor is covered in little shards of slate. So imagine at home you slate on your on your roof.
00:21:22:07 - 00:21:46:18
Kenton Cool
Imagine you put that all over your lawn and then jump on it. There's not going to be much give So I landed hard on the floor and smashed both my heel bones. My Michael Caine, got up, did about two steps, collapsed again, and they were the last two steps I took for three and a half months.
00:21:46:20 - 00:22:08:15
Kenton Cool
And they told you you might not walk again. I was told I'd definitely not walk without steak. modified shoes. definitely wouldn't run. And this, this segways into what we're talking about community. When I asked, when would I climb again, the consultant, my first consultant said, why? You always laughed at me and said, and you're never going to be climbing again.
00:22:08:17 - 00:22:31:19
Kenton Cool
So all of a sudden, my community, I thought, was about to be taken away. And it's amazing how hard you fight when you think you are about to lose something. I mean, I do a reasonable amount of keynote speaking and I'm really immediately just cottoned on to this. You would think I would have learned this like 30 odd years ago when I had my accident.
00:22:31:20 - 00:22:49:19
Kenton Cool
But it's almost like negative motivation because you're going to fight way harder. If you think you are about to lose something, you know you're going to lose your house or God forbid, you want to lose your family. Now, what would you do? I mean, you would go to the ends of the earth, or maybe not for the house, but for the family.
00:22:49:19 - 00:23:06:09
Kenton Cool
You would. And so if you about to lose your community, you mean, what do you do? Well, you fight back. And my number one aim was okay, well, I, I need to walk, because if I can't walk, I can't climb. If I can't climb a in the community. So I need to get back. And that was the driving force.
00:23:06:11 - 00:23:39:03
Kenton Cool
So that a negative motivation. Do you think you do your best work or your best thinking? Therefore, when when you are in that uncomfortable space, when your backs against the wall, I mean, I've always come out fighting. So 1996 was that was a obviously a big that was a big moment. And, and for you and a big opportunity for you to then find this fight to kind of go, actually, no, I'm going to I am going to climb again and I am going to to get back on the horse, as it were.
00:23:39:05 - 00:23:58:03
Kenton Cool
We spoke a little bit beforehand, but tell me, tell me about the operation that you had when you were a child that affected your your brain. And the operation is called the intersection. And I've got that on my on my belly. I always say it's the reason why I can't get a six pack because I. Yeah, they basically cut me open.
00:23:58:03 - 00:24:18:22
Kenton Cool
So I have on an I probably like a six inch scar, on my tummy, which I was two days old or three days old. And that was I mean, it's amazing to think that was the size of my of of my body, of my baby body. I mean, today, I suppose lawsuits will be flying around left, right and center.
00:24:19:01 - 00:24:45:00
Kenton Cool
But it is thought that during this, my time in the incubator, that oxygen was cut off, for whatever reason to to to my brain when I was younger. It was wow, he is he seems I mean, I couldn't speak properly, but spelling was, you know, absolutely atrocious still is to a certain extent, which I think is linked to to not being able to speak properly at the time.
00:24:45:00 - 00:25:14:18
Kenton Cool
Dyslexia or various other learning difficulties perhaps were were bandied around, but ultimately I think it was down to the trauma from, from the operation and the lack of oxygen to the brain. So I'm not I'm not an expert. Kenton in in the brain. But I have learned the there's this umbrella of neurodivergent that includes clinical neurodivergent. So that's more things like ADHD or autism.
00:25:14:20 - 00:25:42:23
Kenton Cool
There's also acquired neurodivergent, which is a lot of what I think you're talking about in terms of having a traumatic brain injury. You're the first guest that we've had on who falls under, an acquired brain injury and the impact of that operation when you were younger on your brain and how it works. I mean, when you're a child, you don't really notice if I go to speech therapy twice a week.
00:25:43:01 - 00:26:04:00
Kenton Cool
And the irony of it is, you know, my childhood, to a certain extent, was dictated by did they through a mistake, you know, auction off. Well, who cares? I'm alive. And I think my parents would take that any day. And nowadays, on average, I still have my brain of oxygen, even my supplementary oxygen. I mean, the irony is not lost.
00:26:04:02 - 00:26:33:03
Kenton Cool
Could you explain the death zone content and the impact on on the brain? The death zone is is part of the atmosphere where we climb into it's genuinely above 76077 one half thousand meters. So was at 2220 3000ft, where there really isn't enough oxygen to sustain life, hence the name death zone. Because when the climber gets into the death zone, the body slowly starts shutting down.
00:26:33:03 - 00:27:01:09
Kenton Cool
Even with supplementary oxygen, it's a ticking time bomb. How long you have in the death zone? Nobody really fully knows, and it varies from person to person. And the effects that being in that low oxygen environment has. I mean, we gotta be careful because the amount of oxygen is actually same. It's the it's the it's the air pressure, the air density, which means that we can't get enough oxygen coming into our bodies.
00:27:01:09 - 00:27:30:17
Kenton Cool
And that lack of oxygen does a number of things, you know, first and foremost, and people don't really realize is it keeps us warm, keeps our extremities warm, because of, you know, oxygen circulation in our blood. But the biggest thing is the effect on our brain because we are starving our brains of oxygen. I volunteered with an ex-girlfriend who was doing a a NASA funded study for Brown University, and they were looking at the effects of starving brain of oxygen on cognitive thought process.
00:27:30:17 - 00:27:50:10
Kenton Cool
So we would carry back in the day it was palm pilots and flip charts, you know, and we called in on the radio back down to base camp. And it would be simple things like you would look at a picture. So it would be a picture of a prince sat on a chair with the princess stood next to it, and then you flip it over and then it would be the princess is stood next to the.
00:27:50:12 - 00:28:17:09
Kenton Cool
And you basically just had to read out what you saw. And then the Palm Pilot, you would do pretty rudimentary logic puzzle type things. And the results are shocking. I mean, just but you you did this. You did it at like seven and a half, 8000m above sea level. And you see the results afterwards and, you know, like, that can't be right.
00:28:17:15 - 00:28:47:10
Kenton Cool
You know, you're making that up, you know, a really simple task and just it may be ridiculous crap results, this sort of thing, like a small child would be able to do. You know, as soon as your brain is under pressure and you trying to assimilate what it is in front of you and you just can't do it if you take I mean, it's one thing is to, to get up, put your boots on, put your crampons on and follow a rope to the summit of Everest.
00:28:47:12 - 00:29:07:20
Kenton Cool
I mean, that's relatively straightforward. It doesn't take I mean, it's a fairly primal physical act. But then when you got to read out passages from a book or, you know, you're missing words out or you missing lines out, it's ridiculous. And are you aware of that? No, not at all. I mean, you get back down. He's seen the results, you know.
00:29:07:24 - 00:29:33:21
Kenton Cool
Know that can't be right. So lucid cognitive thought process is affected. Which is ironic, saying it's arguably one of the most dangerous environments in the world. And, you know, our ability to make rational decisions needs to be on point. And it's and is massively inhibited, is eroded away. Yeah. Because of what it is that we're doing. We're starving our brains with oxygen.
00:29:33:23 - 00:30:05:14
Kenton Cool
Are you aware of the impact on on your decision making on your brain? You are very keen on making a decision via logic when you're on the mountain, a binary thing, climbing and yeah, removing any distractions which I think regardless of whether you're climbing Everest or it's just business day to day or personal life, there's a lot of I know, I mean, it's like your notification on your phone or whatever it is pops up at the corner of your laptop.
00:30:05:14 - 00:30:29:23
Kenton Cool
And as I ring Michel, you know, I mean, Christ, I mean, it's just noise. Are you easily distracted? Oh, God. I'm like a squirrel. I'm I'm awful. I'm absolutely awful. I always had my ice cream hat today. Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, that's a good example. I mean, I'm constantly looking at all these green light. I'm now thinking, why is that green light is neon green?
00:30:29:23 - 00:31:05:21
Kenton Cool
Is that is that that deliberate? I'm, I'm terrible. especially if something is quite shiny. Okay. What appears to be showing. No, no one wants that. I, I want to be part of that gang. Yeah. I my wife calls it the squirrel moment. Okay. I get easily distracted. when you're on the mountain, you're in high stress, super focused and I've heard you talk a lot about the the stress and responsibility when it comes to the summit for your client and safety and, like, what are you what is going through your head?
00:31:05:21 - 00:31:36:00
Kenton Cool
What are you thinking about? So, I mean, you leave your top camp and, you know, I'm always intrinsically worried about numbers of people. weather forecasting is amazing. So yes, I am worried about the weather, but you got a pretty good grasp of what the weather is going to be, so I'm perhaps less I'm more worried about the people because that the uncontrollable force and I always say, you know, control what you can control really, really well, giving you enough bandwidth to deal with the uncontrollable.
00:31:36:02 - 00:31:58:06
Kenton Cool
Well, as you generally the other people. So I'm constantly borderline petrified about what everybody else is doing. So leaving a top. Campbell okay, well, how many lights can I see? How many people behind us? How many people in front of us? You know what you know, are we going to overtake people? I'm always worried about that. But when I think about for 15 to 18 hours, I mean go to I mean, I get distracted by the view.
00:31:58:09 - 00:32:18:05
Kenton Cool
Not this year because it was cloudy. I mean, the view was amazing, you know? And then I think about what when what was a family day? I just think your mind wanders. And that's where I talk about logic. First is emotional decision making because your mind is one wandering here and there. You're trying to fill the void, the space.
00:32:18:05 - 00:32:35:20
Kenton Cool
You're trying to take your mind off the stress, which is huge, you know, and people often talk about, well, yeah, it must be what about oxygen levels? And and you know, how much oxygen, you know, you burning through your technique? I'm not worried about any of that because we can micromanage that. Okay. Now we've got that covered. That's something we can control because you can measure it.
00:32:35:21 - 00:32:57:23
Kenton Cool
We can measure it. Yeah. You can look at the little dial on the top and you've got, you know, the phenomenal Sherpa team of carrying spare cylinders and depositing cylinders. And you got all this shenanigans going on, you know, and we've had the heck up with Ben Fogle, you know, back in 2018 when we had the regulators fail and we work through that and that sort of thing only happens once in a lifetime.
00:32:57:23 - 00:33:21:11
Kenton Cool
So I, you know, I'm not really worried about that. But when I feel like 18 hours worth, I don't know, I kind of it's like a bit like a dream. It's all a bit dreamy in a good way. It sounds very, surreal. And similarly, in, in, in many ways, because, you know, you're dealing with the anxiety, you're looking after someone's dreams and ambitions, you're plotting to the highest point in the world.
00:33:21:11 - 00:33:45:21
Kenton Cool
You're starving your brain. And oxygen is one of the most majestic things you're ever going to do, and ultimately is utterly pointless. but when it is, isn't it? I mean, why do we have to you? Well, I keep coming back, though unfortunately, to me it is work, so it's not pointless because that's why I pay the mortgage.
00:33:45:23 - 00:34:05:08
Kenton Cool
But at the same time, I could probably, if I really wanted to sack off being an average guide and get a leadership role with, you know, make it up, I don't know. Procter and Gamble, Deloitte or whoever as like a global leadership ambassador. I'd probably get paid five times what I get paid going up and down Everest. But I do love it.
00:34:05:08 - 00:34:25:17
Kenton Cool
You know, I still go back because I do enjoy it. Let's put a negative slant onto it. I was leaving Everest this year, and every time I leave a month long know am I coming back in and I run this through my mind I'm okay. But this is the last time I'm going to come here as a climber.
00:34:25:19 - 00:34:43:04
Kenton Cool
Okay, so so what does it feel like? Well, it feels great, but it's sad because this is the last time I'm going to be leaving base camp in the way that with be the memories. And so what is it? I'm going to miss? And it's really hard to put your finger on it. It is more than I. Yeah.
00:34:43:04 - 00:35:08:03
Kenton Cool
I can't just say three things. Yes, it's my Sherpa friends I have. Of course I miss them. But, you know, I, I like waking up in the morning and going into the ship. So this is how bad Everest is. So you have the clients tent or tents for breakfast and dinner and evening meals, which are nicely heated. There's an €11,000 espresso machine that that Lucas has at Lucas.
00:35:08:03 - 00:35:31:17
Kenton Cool
Welcome back. Yeah. €11,000 it cost. the coffee is pretty damn good. Yeah. And it's got, like, carpet on the floor and. Yeah, it's heated and on and on, and on, and. But I normally walk straight past that. I'm going to sit down with the Sherpas in their tent, which has no carpet, it has no heater. And they've got their own kitchen.
00:35:31:17 - 00:35:49:01
Kenton Cool
But she's doling out Darbar, which is a local food, which I love, and then maybe sample for breakfast, which I'm less keen on, and I'm going to have my cup of tea with them, and I just sit down and there's a complete language barrier. Most Japanese speak pretty good English, but I can't speak a word in Nepalese. I mean more for me, but there's just this bond.
00:35:49:05 - 00:36:12:12
Kenton Cool
There's this is this community again, and you're there and they love it. And I love it. And you form, you start forming those relationships. That's what I miss. I miss that bonding that that ability to. So almost subconsciously have a connection with these guys that are working that asses off for you in a dangerous environment. They would do anything for you.
00:36:12:12 - 00:36:35:21
Kenton Cool
Yes. Okay. You pay them and there is summit bonuses and there's all these sorts of things. But it's more than that. That's what I will miss it. Camaraderie. I mean, yeah, 100%. And that's what I will miss from Everest. And you could get it on out on the mountains. I know that. And I work in the European Alps and I see my, my other guide friends and it's not quite the same.
00:36:35:23 - 00:37:03:19
Kenton Cool
Everest is unique, whether you like it or not, for all its good and bad, for all its good and bad. Tell me three things you love about your brain. I love it's randomness. This is such an amazing thing that I know so little about. And the fact that I am a squirrel and I could be having a conversation and all of a sudden see something and it completely captivates me and my brain wants to know what it is and what's it doing.
00:37:03:19 - 00:37:26:23
Kenton Cool
And why is it there. So, you know, I love that side of things. I love its ability to recall information. I mean, Christ, I mean, I know we've all got computers and I know we've got phones and then we got diaries and things like that, but there is nothing better, I don't think. I just think it's incredible. Why does the brain do that?
00:37:26:23 - 00:37:51:13
Kenton Cool
What? Why does it. You don't even consciously think about it, do you? But it picks up these random bits of information, decides it's important. So why hang on to it? And then the ability to regurgitate it sometime in the future is astounding. Do you think you can improve that train that make memory better? I mean, I'm not a brain aficionado, but of course you can.
00:37:51:13 - 00:38:12:15
Kenton Cool
I mean, you could train your brain to do all sorts of things. in the same way that you can train your body first thing, the ability to so solve problems, our ability of our brains to problem solve a lot, like a climbing problem. You know, you're climbing and you're going up, and part of it is physical, but part of it is mental.
00:38:12:20 - 00:38:40:00
Kenton Cool
And you see the problem, and you have to unlock that problem by. Okay, well, this is what I need to do. You know, I need to move up in a way. I need to get my feet high and, and get my hand down, and then I need to move across it. And now when we talk about AI and we talk about, you know, GDP or whatever it's called, and that about our brains are still such an amazing organism that I think way too many of them, myself included, just take for granted.
00:38:40:02 - 00:39:01:24
Kenton Cool
Do you like your brain? Oh, I love my brain. I would like it to be a bit more organized. I would like it to lose things. Glass. I mean, this is classic, classic me. So I always bring my wife from the top with a smartphone. And this year I open up said bag, and there's no Sappho. And I, one of a down with a sapphire.
00:39:02:01 - 00:39:28:01
Kenton Cool
But I get to Everest base camp and I'm undoing my. I use heated footpads in my climbing boots, I'm undoing my heated footwear, and there's my sat phone in my heated foot bed bag. What's it doing in there? I love my brain and I hate it in the same way. What was my brain thinking of putting a cell phone not in his bag, but in his heated foot bed bag?
00:39:28:03 - 00:39:50:19
Kenton Cool
Makes no sense. So I love my brain at the same time, I wish it would just work with me a little bit more sometimes. Oh, remember those things now? I'm terrible for that sort of thing. Don't even ask me about my wallet. I lose my wallet so regularly, but I think subconsciously it's a because then you have the joy I find in it.
00:39:50:21 - 00:40:10:15
Kenton Cool
I find my wallet three times a day. It brings such joy to your life. But I mean short term memory. We talked about this, didn't we, beforehand in Watergate? I mean, I think short term memory is affected. Oh, mine is with I mean, not simply old age people became. Well, yeah. 51 of course your minds go in, talking about attitude.
00:40:10:17 - 00:40:35:13
Kenton Cool
I mean, you think you starve your brain. A short term memory does seem to be one of those things which disappears. But honestly, your joy. Find your wallet $3 a day. Oh, yeah. This is fabulous. You should try. See, I never lose anything. Yeah, but I could hide. You want it for you? You'd love it. Trust me. My kids are really can be really lazy because I.
00:40:35:15 - 00:40:54:10
Kenton Cool
I have this memory where I can remember where everything is and this sort of photographic, I guess, in a sense, they they never go and look for things in their own. They just ask me but, but, but then, but then there's the sieve. Yeah. And I can say it's in the second, you know. But then that's, that's a fascinating thing.
00:40:54:10 - 00:41:16:13
Kenton Cool
Is it. I mean how, you know, we all have a brain, but our brains just work in such different ways. I mean, my my wife virtually has a photographic memory, and she can remember the number of the chair lift that we were on when this particular photograph was taken. You know, I well, why would you even want to remember that?
00:41:16:15 - 00:41:40:21
Kenton Cool
And how can you remember that? Yeah, my memory will remember. Oh, yeah. What I see on the sink. Six Panzer grenadiers, you know, launched into battle. I mean, what's the point of remembering that? But that sounds like that's, military history is a topic of high interest for you. And high passion. Yeah, I went back to university. It would be history.
00:41:40:21 - 00:42:02:20
Kenton Cool
And therefore, your brain is decided that you're going to hold on to all of that because it really means something to you. Yeah, yeah, I understand not not to everyone, but how do you explain to save them for you? Because I see it. Visualization. Yeah. I have, I have a picture. I can tell you. I can tell you what's in the drawer.
00:42:02:22 - 00:42:21:12
Kenton Cool
The everything gets blemished, shoved into. You know, everybody has a drawer like that. There's matches in there. Yeah. Really? Yeah. And there's a yellow folder that's got the passports in it. It's on the left hand. Like I can. Oh, yeah. You want to get it? you want to keep those in a safe? The can't colony on the kitchen side.
00:42:21:14 - 00:42:37:16
Kenton Cool
It's like, oh my God, I need to put that away somewhere. I mean, I lose my passport. I mean, that's the one thing I mean. Oh, God, I lose stuff so much. You should try that. Maybe I should hide your wallet. Yeah. Okay. Okay. But now I just. We can't wait for exactly does. But some problem. It brings joy.
00:42:37:16 - 00:42:54:00
Kenton Cool
I mean, maybe your brain's doing it deliberately because. Yeah, it wants the thrill of finding you find it and then finding it, and then you feel smug because you have found it. And your wife's game. Where's your body wallet? And then when you do find it. Oh, I knew where it was all along, so. But you're. Yeah. Kenton.
00:42:54:01 - 00:43:23:22
Kenton Cool
I guess you've. You climbed Everest when? First 2004. Yeah. 2004. So 20 years ago. Yeah. An 18 time. So basically let's call it every year. Yeah. Pretty much. Which are these, you know, high high intensity moments in a year with then, you know, the recovery and the crash and the kind of come down from such an epic thing.
00:43:23:24 - 00:43:56:06
Kenton Cool
Yet you sound like you enjoy the thrills. You enjoy kind of taking calculated risks and the and the kind of sense of adventure. What do you do for the rest of the time? We do for the rest of the year. Well, I struggle in the office. So the office is at home. So I mean, I co so I've got my guiding, which I do, I've got the whole keynote speaking thing, but I co-founded and run, a performance coaching company, in Cool company with my wife and the offices at home.
00:43:56:09 - 00:44:16:14
Kenton Cool
And I really struggle with that. I mean, the school inside me is constantly looking out the window thinking, it's a nice day. I should be climbing, I should be out for a run or should be there should be doing anything beside the desk. I mean, I struggle with the whole desk thing, but it's all sorts of things. I'm off to Alaska in late June and I'm working in a European now as a mountain guide.
00:44:16:16 - 00:44:36:08
Kenton Cool
I've got a speaking tour because I do small stage tours, which is all anecdotally based, so most of October I'm on the road. I'd be back in the Alps in in August into September, predominate on the Matterhorn. And all my clients seem to want to climb the Matterhorn. This year. I'm back to Nepal with a track, and then I'm climbing.
00:44:36:08 - 00:45:04:08
Kenton Cool
I'm. And I'm I'm in November, so it's a constant drip feed of England. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. endorphins, you know, it's. There is no one particular me. Obviously. No. Summit day on Everest is right up there, but I get as much joy from, you know, days rock climbing in, say, Cheddar Gorge or Avon Gorge or wherever I may be, to climbing the Matterhorn to climbing Everest.
00:45:04:08 - 00:45:28:20
Kenton Cool
It's it doesn't really matter. It could be Ben Nevis, it could be scarf out, it could be, you know, Penny fan in the Brecon Beacons. You know, it doesn't really matter to me what, whether it's the highest mountain in the world or whether it's my local hill, like Mayhill in the Cotswolds. It's all beautiful and it's meaningful to me.
00:45:28:22 - 00:45:49:17
Kenton Cool
if not everybody else. I mean, I don't care if people on social media say, oh, yeah, Bravo, you just climbed Everest for the 18th time. Or whether I climb May Hill with the dog, because that's what I want to do. And I don't need the applause. I'm quite content in my own brain doing what I do. I've learned not the hard way.
00:45:49:19 - 00:46:08:14
Kenton Cool
And yeah, it doesn't matter what others think, doesn't matter what others say. And it's really hard thing to get your head round. But we we should do it for our own self satisfaction regardless of I mean, for years I was the yes man. I would just conform and say, oh, what can you do in an expedition? What can you do in it?
00:46:08:14 - 00:46:39:00
Kenton Cool
That makes me think that's what he does. He's a yes man now. He didn't want to let people down. and then after a while I'm like, well, yeah, I love them, but let's start doing things because that's what I think I should do, not what I think others think that I should do. I'm not I'm not an expert, a master, a master of the kind of, I guess, the ins and outs of a by a, you know, acquired brain injuries, traumatic brain injuries, a neurodivergent.
00:46:39:00 - 00:47:08:13
Kenton Cool
But I do know that what I've read is that the impact of a traumatic brain injury, for example, and these acquired neuro divergences can actually mirror a lot of the characteristics, challenges, traits, skills that happen with clinical, neurodivergent. So sensory issues, communication issues, challenges with socializing and social settings. And I just wondered if any of what I've just said sort of chimes and resonates with you.
00:47:08:15 - 00:47:32:24
Kenton Cool
I mean, I read it resonates to to an extent whereby not not so much on the century side of things. There's certain things have to be just so. Otherwise I just feel a little bit unbalanced, and it could be as simple as the heater in the car can't be on 19.5, can't be on 19. Okay, now it's got to be even numbers.
00:47:33:01 - 00:47:55:22
Kenton Cool
And if it's not even numbers, well, what what we're looking at 18 is the temperature of this room. Yeah okay. My world is not going to come crashing down. But I will keep glancing at, at the heater. Okay. We need to change that to 20 or 22 or whatever it may be. What about your routine? So do you like routine?
00:47:55:22 - 00:48:17:04
Kenton Cool
Yeah, yeah, on certain things. So, you know, I'm not methodical in the way that I approach a climb. I'm not methodical. And, you know, I don't need to have the same clothing or I don't need to put my left boot on for my right boot. But there's definitely processes which I feel that I need to go down.
00:48:17:06 - 00:48:40:10
Kenton Cool
So I've tried to be more organized. And as I've got more organized, I've realized that there are processes that I like to try to put in place now that help the help. Yeah, that help. You know, and it's a cliche but you know, but the numbers. Yeah. I'm not gonna crash a coffee is a 19.5, but it definitely is a distraction.
00:48:40:12 - 00:49:03:19
Kenton Cool
but it sounds like you're more it sounds like you're more aware of your brain. Oh, I've been massively. I'm. Yeah, I'm more aware of my brain. We all are. And I put myself definitely. We're all deeply flawed. And we we're all struggling with our own struggles, whatever they may be. And, and there's, there's definitely ways that we can help ourselves on our journey.
00:49:03:19 - 00:49:23:21
Kenton Cool
And that's self investment. And to to start down that avenue, we need to have a better understanding about ourselves. And this is only for me really only coming in the last like five, eight, ten years max. Yeah. And understanding your brain is part of that, right? Oh, hugely. And what's important to you, yeah. Selfishly, is more about perhaps me.
00:49:23:21 - 00:49:57:08
Kenton Cool
And that comes to my understanding of our brain or my brain of of what works for that brain, what fires that brain, what it likes, what it doesn't like, what it needs, what it doesn't need in binary thinking again. Now try and noise out a little bit. And therefore, what advice would you give to people listening or watching in terms of, yeah, mental strength, you know, improving the functionality of your brain so that you can, I guess, push yourself further.
00:49:57:10 - 00:50:19:12
Kenton Cool
But first and foremost, I try to change like motivation into habit, which comes from doing things repetitively. I think for me at least, that's a really important thing. I mean, I'm struggling with that right now. So I'm back from average. I don't know what eight, ten days? I'm trying to get back into fitness. I'm trying to now, I think I'm motivated.
00:50:19:14 - 00:50:31:10
Kenton Cool
But, you know, I like train in the morning, I get up in the mornings and I can't be assed. You know, all this. I don't want to get out with a six in front of the clock or five in front of the clock, or whether to do an hour's training before taking the children to school, to wherever it may be.
00:50:31:10 - 00:50:54:09
Kenton Cool
But that's exactly what I need to do. And once I make it a habit, it's easy. So. So that's one thing which I struggle with and I'm struggling with right now, trying to change that motivation to habit. But the other thing is keep working. The brain and I, I've been through big, long periods of time when I've not worked my brain and it it gets like like any other muscle to sanity.
00:50:54:09 - 00:51:14:03
Kenton Cool
It gets lazy. Now it needs to be worked. It needs to be, you know, it could be playing chess. So it could be, you know, we we play quite a lot cards at home or we play board games. Anything like that will do. It doesn't need to be, you know, your head in a textbook learning about, you know, theory, relativity or whatever it may be.
00:51:14:03 - 00:51:42:12
Kenton Cool
It can be playing games where the children or or whatever. No, but just keep active, be active, keep working it, keep it on its toes. Yeah. Keep it guessing. We all seek to bring an object content or a neuro spicy contribution, as it were. What did you bring us? This is stripey mouse. So if you're not watching, stripy mouse is a stuffed toy and he is a mouse.
00:51:42:14 - 00:52:05:07
Kenton Cool
You can tell he's a mouse because he's about four and a half long with extremely, extremely long limbs and no one is quite sure where Stripey Mouse came from. But he appeared when I was in an incubator, so Stripy mouse is 51 years old and he's got, I think it's something like 11, ten, nine every summit. They always used to be strapped to the back of my rucksack.
00:52:05:09 - 00:52:40:03
Kenton Cool
He has been re knitted by my mother many, many years ago. She's not with us anymore. But, and then this rather fetching morning suit was actually for my wedding back in 2008. Stripey mouse used to represent escapism for me when things were really bad, when my eyesight really bad. You be in a bivouac somewhere and you're you're you're crapping yourself and you worried about how the climbs going to go the next day, or you scared, or your or you and I, you spouse snuggle with stripe and Mark because he's been my sleeping bag and you kind of snuggle and you like close your eyes and you can be anyway.
00:52:40:03 - 00:53:06:11
Kenton Cool
You can trick your brain through sort of tactile resonance or whatever the word is. And I would be able to trick my brain with stripy, and I just would somehow know that everything was going to be okay. So that's why I bought Stripy Long, and he's not at an outing for a while, and I thought he might want to, on a day in London, come to London to see the Queen or see the King or whatever it is these days, because he's been apprehended by my daughter.
00:53:06:11 - 00:53:28:23
Kenton Cool
But he's he's a fool. The world's foremost mountaineering mouse. Thank you so much for bringing that, Kenton. I'm so struck by the fact, mouse has been in an incubator with you and up Everest, and he's green, and but I did think that when I came in, I mean, even the yellowy bit kind of was like some green.
00:53:29:00 - 00:53:58:06
Kenton Cool
Green. But, he's a good fit. Yeah. Thank you very much, Kenton. Been so good talking to you. And I love your squirrel brain. It's brilliant. thank you though. My pleasure.
00:53:58:06 - 00:54:26:24